Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

Options
View
Go to last post Go to first unread
MWL168  
#1 Posted : Saturday, November 12, 2016 4:02:34 PM(UTC)
MWL168

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/29/2016(UTC)
Posts: 22
United States

I have two questions that I have not been able to get help with.

1. Does the Cronus/Hermes/Amanero combo support DSD256 (4 x DSD) and DSD512 (8 x DSD) over DoP?

2. Does the Buffalo II support DSD256 (4 x DSD) and DSD512 (8 x DSD) over DoP?

I am looking for empirical evidence that someone has actually tried it or done it.

I have a dual-mono B II with the latest Cronus/Hermes/Amanero combo. On my MacBook Pro using JRiver MediaCenter22.0.22 I am able to play DSD64 and DSD128 over DoP but got an error message when I tried to play DSD256 in the same setup.

I am trying to ascertain if the limitation is in the JRiver MediaCenter or my DAC. I posted my question also at the JRiver wiki but all I got is vague answers like "I think...", "Maybe it's your DAC...) etc..

Thanks!

Russ White  
#2 Posted : Sunday, November 27, 2016 2:39:01 AM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,978
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Absolutely DSD at that rate works - but it does not know anything about DoP. :)

It should have been converted long before it hit the Cronus to standard DSD. DoP is the encoding of DSD over PCM. That decoding happens at the source - which would be the Amanero or BBB etc.

I use MPD - not JRiver.
MWL168  
#3 Posted : Wednesday, November 30, 2016 11:07:25 PM(UTC)
MWL168

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/29/2016(UTC)
Posts: 22
United States

Thanks Russ.

I tried Audirvana on my MacBook Pro and it, too, can play DSD64 and DSD128 but cannot play DSD256.

Do I understand correctly that DoP encoding is needed for all Mac devices to play DSD file. When playing a DSD file on Mac, the media player needs to first encode the DSD to PCM (DoP encoding) and then send the PCM data stream to the DAC. So basically by the time the data reaches Amanero it is in PCM packets?

Edited by user Thursday, December 1, 2016 6:44:53 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

MWL168  
#4 Posted : Sunday, December 4, 2016 6:50:33 PM(UTC)
MWL168

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/29/2016(UTC)
Posts: 22
United States

Did some more reading on the DoP.

If my understanding is correct, to process DSD256 and above in DoP, the devices need to be able to support sample rate of 705.6KHz or higher which is above Amanero's spec'ed max sample rate of 384KHz. This would mean that my Buffalo II with the Amanero/Hermes/Cronus, being fed by a MacBook Pro, can play DSD64 and DSD128 in DoP mode but not DSD256 or higher.

In DoP standard 1.1, there is a second method to support DSD128 and beyond without requiring higher sample rate. This is done by using a PCM channel pair to transmit data for a single DSD channel. This also requires the use of a different DSD marker (0x06/0xF9 vs 0x05/0xFA) to distinguish from the first method in the original DoP standard 1.0. I assume this need to be implemented in the media player when encoding DSD to the DoP and the receiving device needs to know how to process the incoming packets. I don't know if Amanero has a firmware that supports this second method.

Is this a correct understanding?

Thanks!

Edited by user Wednesday, December 7, 2016 5:01:32 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#5 Posted : Tuesday, December 6, 2016 2:05:33 AM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,978
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
I generally play DSD directly (no DoP) - Amanero actually has firmware for that - but I have not tested it - I generally use my BBB if I want to play high rate DSD - because it plays DSD directly up to DSD512 very well indeed.

Cheers!
Russ
MWL168  
#6 Posted : Tuesday, December 6, 2016 6:02:49 PM(UTC)
MWL168

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/29/2016(UTC)
Posts: 22
United States

Thanks Russ.

Do you recall which Amanro firmware version supports the higher rate DoP? I did not find one when I checked Amanero's firmware history. I can give it a try and report back with my findings.
Russ White  
#7 Posted : Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:16:37 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,978
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
Honestly don't recall - I would ask him directly via the amanero site. :) Also I think it mentions some of the features in the update tool.

Keep in mind I am not sure that will work with a mac unless you are running a Linux VM. On the mac you likely are stuck with DoP because of it's PCM only stream.

I use my amanero from an rpi-3 running Linux and can play up to DSD512 (raw not DoP) direct from MPD via amanero output.

Edited by user Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:21:39 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#8 Posted : Wednesday, December 7, 2016 2:21:49 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,978
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
MWL168  
#9 Posted : Wednesday, December 7, 2016 4:46:39 PM(UTC)
MWL168

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 5/29/2016(UTC)
Posts: 22
United States

Thanks Russ.

I am using native Mac, no VM, so am restricted to using DoP for DSD playback. I have been trying JRiver and Audiavana both support DoP encoding.

I'll investigate and test and report back with my findings.
Russ White  
#10 Posted : Wednesday, December 7, 2016 8:49:56 PM(UTC)
Russ White

Rank: Administration

Groups: Administration, Customer
Joined: 10/24/2006(UTC)
Posts: 3,978
Location: Nashville, TN

Thanks: 25 times
Was thanked: 89 time(s) in 83 post(s)
I can tell you for certain that DoP at sample rates over DSD128 will not work with the Amanero unless it can be coaxed to support 50Mhz range clocks. :)

Edited by user Wednesday, December 7, 2016 8:51:18 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

barrows  
#11 Posted : Sunday, September 10, 2017 3:48:19 PM(UTC)
barrows

Rank: Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 7/21/2010(UTC)
Posts: 75
Location: Colorado

Thanks: 1 times
As you suggest you need 705.6 PCM compatibility to do DSD256 via DoP. If the Amanero does not do 705.6 PCM, then is limited to DSD 128 via DoP.

The second issue is the Mac. Apple does not support DSD, so you are required to use DoP to get DSD out of a Mac.

Solution: Use a Windows or Linux server, and make sure you have the Amanero firmware which allows for native DSD. With Windows or Linux you can send native DSD to the Amanero/Hermes/Chronus, and this allow for DSD 256, and possibly DSD 512.

Edited by user Sunday, September 10, 2017 3:49:17 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hercules  
#12 Posted : Friday, April 27, 2018 1:59:30 AM(UTC)
Hercules

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 4/16/2009(UTC)
Posts: 56
Location: Hong Kong

Originally Posted by: Russ White Go to Quoted Post
I can tell you for certain that DoP at sample rates over DSD128 will not work with the Amanero unless it can be coaxed to support 50Mhz range clocks. :)


Hi Russ,

I would like to know what's the latest set of Amanero Firmware using with Amanero-Hermes-Cronus 45/49 Rhea Set, using Slave_1080 and 1096c3w2, PCM all fine but DSD only limited to DSD128, newer CPU Firmware support up to DSD512 in Native but can't switch between 45/49Mhz Rhea for 44/48 and its multiples, all 48/96/192/384khz play at slower speed and pitch due to Cronus still using the 45Mhz for 48khz multiples, all config bit flashed on Amanero still not working.



MartinC700  
#13 Posted : Saturday, April 28, 2018 12:58:35 AM(UTC)
MartinC700

Rank: Advanced Member

Groups: Member
Joined: 9/7/2010(UTC)
Posts: 43
Location: San Diego

Thanks: 1 times
Originally Posted by: barrows Go to Quoted Post
As you suggest you need 705.6 PCM compatibility to do DSD256 via DoP. If the Amanero does not do 705.6 PCM, then is limited to DSD 128 via DoP.

The second issue is the Mac. Apple does not support DSD, so you are required to use DoP to get DSD out of a Mac.

Solution: Use a Windows or Linux server, and make sure you have the Amanero firmware which allows for native DSD. With Windows or Linux you can send native DSD to the Amanero/Hermes/Chronus, and this allow for DSD 256, and possibly DSD 512.


If you use a third party audio player like Audirvana, DSD files will work over the Mac. I played DSD files without problem. Audirvana will also convert PMC files to DSD and send via USB, the only issue is that it taxes the Mac processor - my poor 9 year old MacBook got very toasty and hot!


OK, sorry should have read the full post, whether its over DoP I have no clue!

Edited by user Saturday, April 28, 2018 1:01:43 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Rss Feed  Atom Feed
Users browsing this topic
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.