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Corpius  
#1 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2012 8:55:27 AM(UTC)
Corpius

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Hi,

I don't know why, but my BIII can't get a lock using the four spdif board when only one source is connected. While building it I had tested it with just one source. It played for hours without any unlocks. The DAC was not grounded to the wall socket and still isn't.
When using the 'teleporter-metronome-sidecar' configuration I also had a locking problem. At first I had to apply a gnd connection between my cd-pro and DAC, but since I build it into a metal chassis the problem is gone. It seems like it has been replaced for a new one.

Somehow there have to be two sources connected and they both have to be ON, presenting a signal for the dac to get the lock on. Even then it is not perfectly stable. I get a more stable lock (not perfect) when connecting the gnd from one of the spdif sources from the spdif board to the gnd of the SE analog output, but there still have to be two sources connected.
I find this very strange...

For a larger size of this image click here

DAC layout
Russ White  
#2 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2012 1:49:20 PM(UTC)
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One thing that may help in your case would be to connect -IN and GND on INA, INB and INC. Just solder a jumper. Easy to undo later if you like.
Corpius  
#3 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2012 2:04:04 PM(UTC)
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Hi Russ,

I will try it, but it still find it strange that such things are needed in order to get a proper lock. Do you have any ideas on what could be causing this problem?
Russ White  
#4 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2012 2:13:03 PM(UTC)
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I have no way to know. I can only guess. :) My guess is that you already have a transformer coupled source or two. If that is true then this approach should solve the problem nicely. :) What this does is firmly reference the primary side to GND. Worth a shot. :)
Corpius  
#5 Posted : Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:07:07 PM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Russ White Go to Quoted Post
One thing that may help in your case would be to connect -IN and GND on INA, INB and INC. Just solder a jumper. Easy to undo later if you like.


Hi Russ,

My cd-transport is indeed transformer coupled.
Connecting -IN to GND made things much better, but I still have quite regular unlocks when the dac is cold. When it is playing for some time (5-10 minutes) there are almost no unlocks anymore.

What puzzles me is when I was building the DAC I had listened for two evenings in a row using the spdif board without even having one unlock. Now that the build more or less is finished the unlock problem started. The only two differences are that I build it into a metal chassis and the Metronome-Teleporter are connected to the sidecar. These where not when I had listened to the DAC for two evenings in a row.

I noticed that the shunted current from the placid HD rises when it warm up. It starts shunting about 33 mA and rises to about 50 mA. Could it be that I need to shunt more current in order to avoid unlocks at startup?

Edited by user Sunday, July 1, 2012 4:08:30 PM(UTC)  | Reason: typo

Russ White  
#6 Posted : Monday, July 2, 2012 12:52:51 AM(UTC)
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Well, I would say your a bit on the low side - remember the load is dynamic.
Corpius  
#7 Posted : Sunday, August 26, 2012 3:36:15 PM(UTC)
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Hello Russ and Brian,

I want to inform you on the fact that I'm still experiencing some issues with the 4 channel spdif board.

A while ago I installed jumpers between -IN and GND on INA, INB and INC. When I leave these out the BIII can not get a lock at all! With the jumpers in place I still get regular dropouts. It doesn't matter if I set the DPLL setting to High or Low or somewhere in between, the amount of dropouts stay the same.
When I connect a second source which is turned off the DAC looses lock immediately. Only when I turn the second source ON I do get a steady lock!
I find this very strange. Before I build it into the chassis the DAC had played for hours with just one source connected to it without loosing lock once.

When I'm listening via Teleporter-->Metronome-->Sidecar I never experience any dropouts. Therefore it must have something to do with the 4 channel spdif board. I tried everything I could think off, perhaps you guys have some ideas to help me to get rid of the dropouts?
Russ White  
#8 Posted : Sunday, August 26, 2012 4:09:03 PM(UTC)
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I wish I could reproduce what you are seeing. I have not been able to. I can only guess since you had no issue prior to installing in the chassis that you may need to isolate things a bit more.
Corpius  
#9 Posted : Sunday, August 26, 2012 5:33:50 PM(UTC)
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The chassis is connected to earth at the wall socket. There is no connection between gnd of the DAC and chassis. It is fully floating. Disconnecting it from the wall sockets earth does not make a difference, but this is not so strange because the DAC never connects to it.

I'll get the board out and try connecting sources while it is outside the chassis. One thing I find very strange is that I need two powered sources to be able to get a real steady lock.

Russ White  
#10 Posted : Monday, August 27, 2012 12:18:13 AM(UTC)
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Yes that is indeed strange, and it suggests that the two are interacting with each other in some way.
Corpius  
#11 Posted : Monday, August 27, 2012 5:57:55 AM(UTC)
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Originally Posted by: Russ White Go to Quoted Post
Yes that is indeed strange, and it suggests that the two are interacting with each other in some way.
I don't think that they are interacting. The DAC also looses lock when I connect only cable to one of the unused inputs!!?
I also have a Rega DAC. Both source can be connected to it without any problems. This indicates to me that both sources are just fine. It must have something to do with the spdif board.

As as said before, I'll get the board out and try each separate input, leaving just one rca connected. If this works then I'll connect a second rca connector and plug in just a cable. If this works then I'll hook up the second source and so on...
Russ White  
#12 Posted : Monday, August 27, 2012 9:24:03 PM(UTC)
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Corpius, I am just not sure what to tell you since many others are using it without a problem.
Corpius  
#13 Posted : Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:36:54 AM(UTC)
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I understand, no problem :-)
gwikse  
#14 Posted : Thursday, August 30, 2012 6:49:03 PM(UTC)
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Can this be related to 220/230V?
I had the same issue and so did two others I know of here in Norway. I am however a little curious if this may be solved by trying to connect the other set of primary`s from the transformer or at least make sure that the same "phase" is shorted on both the digital and analog part of the buffalo?
Corpius  
#15 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2012 12:24:06 PM(UTC)
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Hi Gwikse!

I have already tried powering it with another transformer. It didn't make any difference. It is normally powered by the Sigma 11 from AMB, but when powering it with the Placid doesn't make any difference either. In a moment i'll get the spdif board out to experiment with it.

Edited by user Friday, August 31, 2012 2:57:01 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Corpius  
#16 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2012 2:50:16 PM(UTC)
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Well now I tried everything I could think of, but I can't get it to work properly. This is what I found

- I get a steady lock on all inputs when I connect just one source.
- When connecting second source to any of the free inputs and the source is not powered it looses lock.
- Switching on the second source makes the DAC lock onto the signal of the selected source.
- Connecting 3 or even 4 sources makes no difference.
- Connecting GND to -IN makes it a little bit better, but still far from good.

I also tried getting the board out and connecting it outside the chassis, re-soldered everthing, Checked and double checked the connection between the sidecar and spdif board. I disconnected all components from earth, and then connected them back to earth one by one. Despaired as I was I even hooked up other RCA connectors. Results: no differences Brick wall

Now I have just one spdif source connected and all other spdif sources connected to my Rega dac. This dac is synchronously clocking the digital data with the receiver PLL (removing any jitter from the input signal) and sends it out again through spdif to the BufFalo dac. Perhaps even a better solution Think , but much more expensive. I now need another dac and paid double the price for a single spdif level converter. Luckily i'm convinced that i2S is the way to go Angel

Edited by user Friday, August 31, 2012 11:02:22 PM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Russ White  
#17 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2012 10:11:48 PM(UTC)
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Corpius, I really wish I knew what was going on. I am at a loss - since i cannot replicate your situation.

I would love to help.
gwikse  
#18 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2012 11:02:12 PM(UTC)
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Perhaps we could switch out the source that is not in use (or rather switch on the one in use) with a simular circuit as the sidecar. Taking the trigger voltage from the front panel leds for those that don`t use an arduino.

I am going to test if I can get a lock with the sources totaly independent of each other when connecting coax sp-dif (consumer) to the sp-dif input board but only connect D1 if I remember correctly (the one channel used from the sp-dif board) and sending TTL level sp-dif from optial modules directly to the sidecar/B3. But things have not gone according to plan this summer. I hope I get around to it soon.

To Russ and Brian: I thought that since I have only seen this issue in countries running 220/230V and the fact that you can not replicate the problem, that this might be related to that. Here in Norway the phase is not fixed on appliances either, in that I mean that the components can be connected in opposite phase from the wall outlet.
Corpius  
#19 Posted : Friday, August 31, 2012 11:38:53 PM(UTC)
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@Gwikse
I had been thinking to of this too. Some images of a simple circuits containing relays flashed before my eyes, but this is still far from perfect. There are already some relays in the signal path and I'm not to happy about adding some more.
Sorry to here you are having the exact same issues. Leif Chistensen, also here from the forum (and from Norway) was also facing the same issues. It could be that it is related to the mains (220V/230V) and no fixed phase. But I also have tried switching the plug(s) without success. Comparing it to 110V mains is not possible. For now it woks just fine with the Rega Dac to switch between spdif sources, but it is a bit frustrating that it does not work.


@Russ
I'm convinced that the spdif board is a fine product, but it doesn't seem to work for me and some others.
Being realistic, switching off the sources that are not used is (for now) the only way for me to use more then one input. I have no free digital pins left on my arduino Uno to switch relays and a Arduino Mega doesn't fit inside my chassis, so perhaps you know if there are some nice IC's that can perform the same function as the relays using I2C? Your Otto 2 would probably also work, but it can only switch between two sources.
gwikse  
#20 Posted : Saturday, September 1, 2012 12:41:10 AM(UTC)
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You could use the same port expander as with the lcdioextender in order to save some code-work ;)

Edit: I`ll have a look around for a 220V to 110V converter that I can borrow. I think one of my friends has one in his stereo system.

Edited by user Saturday, September 1, 2012 12:43:52 AM(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

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